Martha Kearney lashed out at SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon with a crucial point during a debate on Scotland having an independence referendum by 2021. Ms Sturgeon argued polling shows a “majority of people” want an independence referendum, but the BBC radio host contended Scots do not want this within the SNP leader’s two-year “timescale”. Speaking on BBC Radio 4’s Today Programme, Ms Kearney said: “At the moment it doesn’t sound like they do want that choice do they. If you look at the poll today it is in line with many others, saying only a fifth of people in Scotland want a referendum within two years.” 

Ms Sturgeon began: “A majority of people in that poll want a referendum. My job as First Minister is to say if we wait two years we risk – “

The BBC presenter interjected: “Not in your timescale.”

The First Minister of Scotland continued: “We risk real damage being done to us. That is the responsibility of leadership. As First Minister I could sit back and do nothing and let that Brexit juggler not hit us, I think that would be the wrong thing for a leader to do.

“But many of these questions about the transfer of power, the ability of the Scottish Government to have a referendum, I think should be directed much more forcefully back to the UK Government.

“My Government in Scotland was elected on a very clear manifesto commitment on this issue to offer this choice to people in the event of Brexit. So we are fulfilling that commitment we made.”

Although you have put legislation in train, you haven’t actually set a date

Martha Kearney

Ms Kearney said: “Well it was your commitment wasn’t it, because it was about if there was material change, but it was also about if there was demand from the Scottish people.

“And to quote another opinion poll to you, What Scotland Thinks had a survey and 52 percent of people said there should not be another referendum in the next few years.”

The SNP leader repeated: “As I say, my job is to set out to people why I think change is needed if we face Brexit and that’s what I am going to do. That is the responsibility of leadership, not to sit back and allow damage to happen to the country that you are leading.

“In terms of my manifesto I am very familiar with the terms of my manifesto and if there was a material change of circumstances, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.

“Now that is the situation, now my proposition is the people of Scotland should have the right to choose between the damage of Brexit and the path as an independent country, and I think that is a perfectly reasonable proposition given the implications and the consequences of the decision to leave the EU.”

Ms Kearney then suggested: “In a sense is this a holding position before your Party conference, because actually some of the most strong supporters of independence will feel quite let down, because although you have put legislation in train, you haven’t actually set a date.”

Ms Sturgeon responded: “It’s not a holding position, we have to legislate if we are to have a referendum, so we are taking the steps that will enable that choice within this term of Parliament. That’s the right thing to do to enable us to offer people that choice.”

The debate follows Ms Sturgeon renewing calls for a second independence referendum for Scotland.

In a fiery attack on Whitehall on Wednesday, the SNP leader stated the “status quo is broken” and called on the Scottish people to be able to decide their own future relationship with Europe.

In a statement to MSPs, she said: “A choice between Brexit and a future for Scotland as an independent European nation should be offered in the lifetime of this Parliament.

“I can confirm that the Scottish Government will act to ensure that the option of giving people a choice on independence later in this term of Parliament is progressed.”

Responding to Ms Sturgeon’s comments, Prime Minister Theresa May’s official spokesman said: “As we have been repeatedly clear, Scotland has already had an independence referendum in 2014 and voted decisively to remain in the United Kingdom. This should be respected.

“Our position hasn’t changed. Both sides agreed to respect the result of the 2014 referendum. That is what needs to happen.”

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